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 Map selector switch and LED (currently 826 views) |
| Avar |
| Posted on: Friday, June 11th, 2010, 12:06:55pm |
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Hello
I know this can be done but i wondered what the best way to go about it would be.
I'd like to have two maps, one eco and one nutter mode with an LED to light up when activated in nutter mode. Is this worth while doing or just run one map that does all?
Also i like the launch control idea but again how would i wire in a switch and LED to light when in mode.
And finally the ECU has some intresting safety features where you can set a rev cut to prevent over revving when cold etc, again could i wire in an led to to go out when the car satisfy's certain conditions like water temp upto x amount etc.
Cheers |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Friday, June 11th, 2010, 2:09:07pm |
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Not sure it's worth having 2 maps, it would be more useful to be able to have 2 sets of boost control settings but the ecu doesn't support that, which is why I need to load a different setup on trackdays - the fuel map is the same in both cases anyway, it just doesn't use the mappings that the boost doesn't reach in normal day-to-day driving.
I've got mine set to limit the rev's to 6500 until the engine reaches 70 deg. You could set up one of the aux outs to light up an led until the engine reaches this temp. The one in the pic is set up on aux 5 - Red/Black on the 16-way connector to the -ve side of the led and 12v to the +ve |
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Reply: 1 - 16 |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Friday, June 11th, 2010, 2:09:48pm
 Attachment: water_temp.jpg - 66.92 KB (876 views) |
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oops forgot the attachment  |
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Reply: 2 - 16 |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Friday, June 11th, 2010, 10:34:39pm |
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Quoted from fxdlidon, posted Friday, June 11th, 2010, 2:09:07pm at here |
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Not sure it's worth having 2 maps, it would be more useful to be able to have 2 sets of boost control settings but the ecu doesn't support that, which is why I need to load a different setup on trackdays - the fuel map is the same in both cases anyway, it just doesn't use the mappings that the boost doesn't reach in normal day-to-day driving.
I've got mine set to limit the rev's to 6500 until the engine reaches 70 deg. You could set up one of the aux outs to light up an led until the engine reaches this temp. The one in the pic is set up on aux 5 - Red/Black on the 16-way connector to the -ve side of the led and 12v to the +ve
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I thought that would be the case, i keep thinking of two maps like they do with the rally cars, but i assume thats different due to ALS systems the AFR sensor would always make the car run as perfect as possible and would tune up a deliberately rich setup i spose.
The LED idea, would you just wire in one side of the LED to the adaptronic with the other directly fitted to the power of the car, that way the ecu just switched the -ve side of the LED?
I was thinking a nice bright red one as a not warmed up yet light with a green one in conjunction with the launch control switch. I had thought about limiting it harder (somewhere around 4,500) untill warmed up as i can still hit high boost at low revs on mine. 4,500 would completely remove the temptation of being an idiot when the car is cold.
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Reply: 3 - 16 |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Saturday, June 12th, 2010, 8:41:28am |
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Kei,
You can do all of the above if you want but you may run out of inputs & outputs although there are 8 of each.
The launch control I have set up on my car activates a relay which you could also connect to an LED or light if yoiu wanted which would save another ECU ouitput.
A couple of guys I know out here that race in hillclimbs simply save different maps and load the one they want for the conditions on the day. Even on the same track for say wet or dry conditions. |
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Reply: 4 - 16 |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Saturday, June 12th, 2010, 11:18:21am |
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Ok, silly question now, how would the maps be different?
Surely the ecu will optimum tune the map and unless i was driving at a different altitude it would be the best setting whether i was in phsyco nutter (full throttle all the way) driving mode or eco (sensible throttle) mode.
Can someone enlighten me? maybe Wayne is the best person to explain this.
Also the adaptronic has all these in and outputs but aren't a lot of them used already? i presume the boost light for example uses one of these.
Unfortunately the manual isn't written in idiot so i have troubles understanding some of it. |
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Reply: 5 - 16 |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Saturday, June 12th, 2010, 11:47:52pm |
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You could tune one map for your usual boost setting and the second map for a higher boost level if you want for example.
Correct, some of the inputs and outputs are already used for boost light, electrical input, AC input, etc but when I fitted the analouge TPS it freed 2 of the inputs up for example like WOT and Idle inputs as the analouge TPS connects directly to dedicated ECU inputs. It would depend on what mods you have done.
Each of the inputs can be configured to act when switched to ground so as I use an input I connect it through a realy which you can then switch other items if you want that would correspond to the same trigger.
Sorta makes sense I think? |
Last modified Saturday, June 12th, 2010, 11:50:26pm by grant4561 |
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Reply: 6 - 16 |
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| Chernoby1 |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 5:18:25am |
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Quoted from Avar, posted Saturday, June 12th, 2010, 11:18:21am at here |
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Ok, silly question now, how would the maps be different?
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As Grant said it has to do with the boost. Its abit finiky because you have to take into acount if youre at WOT or not aswell and other little things like that. It doesnt make a HUGE difference but enough for it to be noticable (mainly with the responsiveness of the engine)
As for setting it up, i will eventually buy one of those very small laptops, butcher it and integrate it into the car. I should also be able to make a usb controller board so that you can connect something like 200/300 switches/buttons/sensors and have them relay the relevant information onto the adaptronic. (300 inputs may sound like overkill, but im going to set it up to log suspension compresion/body roll/weight distrobution/ect...)
Only bad thing with this... im expecting to finish it around Dec 2011 lol  |
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Reply: 7 - 16 |
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| Ricou |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 11:24:56am |
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About controlling the boost, it's a shame the Adaptronic doesn't link boost level to the map used or doesn't offer an input to change between different boost settings.
That's why I'm thinking that the only way I can control boost (without plugin a pc) is to put a switch onto the cables going from the Adaptronic to the bleed valve so I can disable it and go back to "stock" boost. |
Last modified Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 11:25:19am by Ricou |
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Reply: 8 - 16 |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 1:19:06pm |
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This where i get confused, i assumed that the MAP and AFR combo was all that the ECU used to get max performance. We alter the MAP by opening and closing the butterfly valve, the ECU compensates by adding more fuel and tweaks it with what the AFR sensor says. This added pressure within the engine then pushes the turbo on and the circle is repeated until the turbo hits its max output as set by the wastegate.
What you guys are saying is that the ECU monitors the TPS and and effectively says hang on although he's at full boost for example he's only at 50% of throttle so is less agressive with the adding of fuel, is this correct? as this is what gets me. From my experience of glancing at the boost gauge while driving manifold pressure is directly related to throttle position, am i wrong in this observation?
I spose the only way i will directly see a difference is that if i spend a period getting it mapped at all out banzai mode, then mapping again in old giffer in his volvo mode and directly comparing the finished MAP's. |
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Reply: 9 - 16 |
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| Ricou |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 3:01:22pm |
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I think you're wrong here. You were right about the MAP but not the AFR.
The ECU uses MAP and RPM to read his fuel map and find out how much fuel needs to be injected. AFR is used when in closed loop mode, which is possible only at steady MAP and RPM. |
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Reply: 10 - 16 |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 8:36:01pm |
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Quoted from Avar, posted Friday, June 11th, 2010, 10:34:39pm at here |
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The LED idea, would you just wire in one side of the LED to the adaptronic with the other directly fitted to the power of the car, that way the ecu just switched the -ve side of the LED?
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That's it
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Reply: 11 - 16 |
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| Chernoby1 |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 10:17:57pm |
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Quoted from Avar, posted Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 1:19:06pm at here |
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From my experience of glancing at the boost gauge while driving manifold pressure is directly related to throttle position, am i wrong in this observation?
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I did quite abit of testing in regards to this. Once i hit max boost i would play around with the tps to see how much it would affect it. I could safely conclude that from 75%-100% open throttle it would hold max boost.* I think the drop your noticing is going to be due not to the ECU retarding timing/fueling but rather the Throttle body creating a noticble amount of back pressure when not at/close to WOT.
*No boost control, 100% stock other than sparkplugs (heatrange '8')
From what ive been able to work out, the Stock ecu uses the TPS mainly for off throttle situations (how fast to rev down) And on my adaptronic config it does largely the same thing. The adaptronic can go as far as basing fueling in regards to TPS/rpm rather than MAP/rpm, but im not sure if id ever go down that path with a turbo car. |
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Reply: 12 - 16 |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 10:43:01pm |
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I think my earlier statement was not 100% correct, on the drive back from London tonight i kept an eye on the guage and although the MAP and the throttle position are related they are only loosely related due to turbo lag. You can as you said run the a car on just TPS and RPM as they do on very early injector setups. But because of the response of the turbo being slower than the thottle the ECU needs to know the exact manifold pressure otherwise it could rich out the fuel to an extent that damage could occur to the engine or catlytic convertor.
But the question still arrises as to how much difference there can be of the fueiing maps between all out attack and eco mode. If i'm trying to drive economically i aim for low boost and low revs, surely that would use the same mapping as the all out attack style of driving just a smaller potion of the mapping. The ECU after all only wants to hit that holy grail of air fuel ratios of 14.4 whether i'm pushing hard or going easy.or is that perhaps the point of multiple mapping? the best econimical ratio is 14.4 but for racing you need to perhaps have a map program that has a slightly higher AF ratio?
I'm now confusing myself  . |
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Reply: 13 - 16 |
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| Ricou |
| Posted on: Monday, June 14th, 2010, 12:23:53am |
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Kei, one basic thing you need to know is that the ECU targets 14.7 AFR only on light loads.
When on boost, a turbocharged engine needs more fuel to keep exhaust gaz cool enough not to damage the turbo. This usually is around 12.5 - 12 AFR.
If you open WARI and load the basic file for our Cappos, you'll see in "Target AFR" tab what AFRs the ECU is aiming at for each load. But remember, if you want the Adaptronic to adapt the fueling at high loads (and steady RPM of course, unless no closed loop / adaptative mode possible), you'll need a wideband O2 sensor. |
Last modified Monday, June 14th, 2010, 12:24:11am by Ricou |
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Reply: 14 - 16 |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Monday, June 14th, 2010, 6:53:33am |
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Got one on the way, picked up a new LC-1 for 100 pound off ebay  |
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Reply: 15 - 16 |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Monday, June 14th, 2010, 10:13:30am |
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Quoted from Chernoby1, posted Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 10:17:57pm at here |
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The adaptronic can go as far as basing fueling in regards to TPS/rpm rather than MAP/rpm, but im not sure if id ever go down that path with a turbo car.
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I set up my second fuel map for TPS/RPM after a map sensor failed 100miles from home - it was only because I'd just changed it that I could fit the old one and get hope home.
It's only a very rough TPS/RPM map but at least it would get me home if this ever happened again
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Last modified Monday, June 14th, 2010, 12:52:19pm by fxdlidon |
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Reply: 16 - 16 |
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Cappuccino Owners Club › Specific Discussion Boards › Adaptronic ECU › Map selector switch and LED (Moderators: )
